ID: Kiri and Rindou

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ID: Kiri and Rindou

Post by IG Team » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:00 am

Minarai

Hello,

what kind of motifs are on my Susohiki?
Are this waves and paulownia?

What kind of flowers are there around the flower looking like paulownia ?

Finally I want to know the season. :kitti:

Thank you very much!!! :katana:


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Re: ID: Kiri and Rindou

Post by IG Team » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:01 am

Kanzashi no Yume

There is no kikyou on this one, kiri is usually portrayed with their flowers and not just leaves. So just kiri and waves. :)

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Re: ID: Kiri and Rindou

Post by IG Team » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:02 am

Tsubame

also kiri flowers are commonly represented with the three dots, at least the basal ones. I just checked on my copy of "Kimono and the motifs of Japan". But usually the inflorescence is not so long.

Look also at hanafuda cards:

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Re: ID: Kiri and Rindou

Post by IG Team » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:03 am

muhvi

One vote more for kiri. Their flowers can look somewhat like kikyo, but it's the leaves then what you should be looking to decide between. Kikyo leaves look completely different.

I find it more likely to have just kiri, than plain kiri leaves with kikyo flowers added, and without their own leaves which are attached to stem. On kiri flowers the flowers are in clusters, without leaves like here.

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Re: ID: Kiri and Rindou

Post by IG Team » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:04 am

Minarai

Kiri seems to bloom in spring. In this thread (note: removed broken link to "[Knowledge] Seasonal Patterns/Kanzashi" thread) it is stated that the motif is associated with autumn however. So, when talking about seasonality I would guess it is mostly autumn then, but as bebemochi suggests winter could probably do too. And if you look at the blooming time, it could technically be spring too, if I am not stretching things way too much... :lol:

To make things even more complicated, I actually own one ro obi with kiri. So... maybe it is something that can be considered all-season is certain cases?

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Re: ID: Kiri and Rindou

Post by IG Team » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:05 am

GoldfishPanic

I wouldn't use it for *all* seasons, as it is still lined and would be inappropriate for summer. Also, don't forget that autumn and winter motifs can appear on summer items to give a cooling vibe to the viewers (ex. snowflake motifs on yukata and whatnot).

According to this blog, paulownia is used for late spring.

Also, the water here looks more like a stream as opposed to waves, and I know water motifs that aren't crashing waves (which I believe is late winter/very early spring) are usually associated with spring and summer, but since this is a lined kimono, that kind of rules out summer, yes? So wouldn't that definitely make this hiki for spring (probably late spring, if we're being really technical)?

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Re: ID: Kiri and Rindou

Post by IG Team » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:05 am

muhvi

Whoops, sorry for being unclear with summer motif thingy.
And now I feel like idiot not checking that blog :ohno: , I read it all the time. So my kiri obi just then leghtens the period little to June too. I am getting little off topic, but what would you say if the kiri in question would have fruits/berries/whatever also? My guess would be that it could be worn little longer than just kiri with flowers?

But, now I am super interested to know is that kiri/autumn thing just a misunderstanding, or is it acutally autumnal in certain cases? If so, I would love to know why.

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Re: ID: Kiri and Rindou

Post by IG Team » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:06 am

GoldfishPanic

I would still think your obi would be fine throughout summer since you mentioned it was ro. I guess if you were going by strict tea ceremony rules (which would be kinda fun =D ) May and June would be ideal.

Now that you bring it up, I'm curious about that too. If kiri flowers in spring, would we see berries or fruit in the summer? Does a lack of flowers or fruits put kiri in autumn? Motifs are so hard sometimes. :lol:

Also, since I forgot to mention something previously, Minarai, your hiki is very beatiful! What a lovely find!

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Re: ID: Kiri and Rindou

Post by IG Team » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:07 am

Kokoro

One more opinion^^

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The lower part of this mon shows paulownia leaves. They could be jagged like in this mon or rounded.
The flowers in the upper part is gentian (rindou). Both motives are well known and especially from the kiri mon many different versions exist.
Rindou can for example be presented in the way that their leaves look like bamboo gras, sasa, and what you then get is the sasa-rindou mon (or it is combined with sasa, I have read of both versions)

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So it´s quite comon to combine rindou what gets me back to my interpretation of the motive: kiri and rindou :lol:

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