difference between Oiran and Tayuu?

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difference between Oiran and Tayuu?

Post by IG Team » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:33 pm

Mizuhi:

what is the difference between oiran and tayuu :? I saw some oiran(or tayuu) with a long ponytail, other not,why? who are the oiran(or tayuu) apprendists?what is their name? thankyou for replays

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Re: difference between Oiran and Tayuu?

Post by IG Team » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:34 pm

Fuyou:

The general concensus is that a Tayu is the highest class of courtesan in Kyoto and an Oiran is the highest class of courtesan in Edo (old Tokyo). I was reading Seigle's 'Yoshiwara' and Debecker's 'The Nightless City', though, and they wrote that it was more of a Tayuu being the early term for the highest class of courtesan and Oiran being a later term. A Tayu or Oiran's child apprentice/servant is called a Kamuro, while an apprentice/new courtesan was called a Shinzo. Different hairstyles were worn to indicate status, but I'm not sure what the ponytail look indicated. I've only seen it on Kabuki actors, so it might not be entirely authentic.

You can learn a lot of information in the Not Enough Tayuu Thread.

I hope that helped :).

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Re: difference between Oiran and Tayuu?

Post by IG Team » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:34 pm

Tahanala:

I have a book about Yoshiwara, and the author exposes the various rank titles in use through the ages. (Already mentionned, its title is "Courtisanes du Japon.") Nowhere does he even cite the term "oiran." I really have to read from these other, more comprehensive sources!

By the way, what would have been the generic term for courtesans and prostitutes? Yûjo?

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Re: difference between Oiran and Tayuu?

Post by IG Team » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:35 pm

Fuyou:

There are two Yoshiwara books, one that was written by a man (I think his name is Longstreet or Longfellow) and another by a woman (her name is Seigle). I know the first one was a rather general book, while Seigle's is moderately detailed and Debecker's 'The Nightless City' is very indepth. Seigle's and Debecker's books mentioned that Oiran originated somewhere around in the 18th century while Tayuu was from the 17th century. Debecker also mentioned that the term Oiran came from the Yoshiwara dialect for older sister (which I can't remember off the top of my head), and Kamuro would shorten that term into Oiran.

Yuujo was a general term for upper class courtesans I think, and Shougi was the term for lower class prostitutes.

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Re: difference between Oiran and Tayuu?

Post by IG Team » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:35 pm

toshiteru-san:

i thought the long ponytaillike style was for the dochu's and like a full oirans debut?

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Re: difference between Oiran and Tayuu?

Post by IG Team » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:36 pm

Fuyou:

I've never seen a real Oiran or Tayuu use the pontytail style, only Kabuki actors. The style also wasn't mentioned in Debecker's list of 18th century coiffures. I really don't know what it means, or why it's worn, but I can say that I don't see real Oiran or Tayuu using it.

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Re: difference between Oiran and Tayuu?

Post by IG Team » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:37 pm

Akamatsu_Ayako:

The movie is entitled "Killing in Yoshiwara". In this clip you will see Dame Tamazuru having her Oiran-no-Douchu (Tayuu coming-out parade), but throughout the movie, the Oiran were referred to as Tayuu. She's wearing the ponytail style here, and I believe it has also been worn by Oiran since the movie seemed very accurate.

[Broken link removed]

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Re: difference between Oiran and Tayuu?

Post by IG Team » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:37 pm

Fuyou:

I remembered that movie, too, but because she was an actress, not a real Tayuu, I didn't consider it as a proper example. I know that there has to be some accuracy to it if Kabuki actors would wear it, but because I haven't seen real Tayuu or Oiran wearing it nor have I seen record of it in books (in which I could give a name to the style), I don't think it should be considered an authentic style.

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Re: difference between Oiran and Tayuu?

Post by IG Team » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:38 pm

Isami Kondo:

I am a bit confused with it all....so,tayuu and oiran were not geisha but they used to entertain like geisha plus sexual services? You mean,they used to learn shamisen etc,like geisha? :?

And what´s the difference at all? In the said movie,the man says "dayuu" when introducing the women the main characther helped to acheive the title,and she´s wearing that "buterfly-like hair",not the "maiko-like with metal flowers" i saw in an other thread :?

too complicated for me :cry:

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Re: difference between Oiran and Tayuu?

Post by IG Team » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:39 pm

PassionFruit Addict:

Oiran and Tayuu are similar.
Tayuu are from Yoshiwara (Tokyo), and Oiran from Shimabara (Kyoto).


More informations here and here.
The question had been already ask in this thread.

This thread explains with a cute manga the number of men girls have to deal with.

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Re: difference between Oiran and Tayuu?

Post by IG Team » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:40 pm

Isami Kondo:

ah,yes thank you :bunbun: ,but what confused me is in some material in the web,where they call "tayuu" what is suppoused to be an "oiran",according to the outfit guys posted in other threads.Here´s an exemple about what I mean:

http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/oiran?before=1310824720

Tayuu being called oiran:

http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/oiran?before=1310824720 ( someone make a correction in this case)

but now i got it :wink:

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